by Greg Dennis in Buses
Posted on May 22, 2008 at 10:10 pm
Last Modified on August 16, 2009 at 3:53 pm
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I’m proposing the 89 bus route be changed as shown (bigger image here):
I live on Broadway between Magoun Square and Winter Hill, and as such, I rely pretty heavily on the 89 bus to get around. Like many who take the 89, I find the route inconvenient because it has two variations: 1) a straight shot along Broadway between Clarendon Hill and Sullivan Square, and 2) from Sullivan to Davis Square and back. Before 7pm it more or less alternates between the two routes and after 7pm it only goes to Clarendon Hill.
The two variations are a source of confusion. About once a week, I see some confused rider on the Davis bus who thought it was going to Clarendon Hill or vice versa. I’ve even had bus drivers mistakenly drive the wrong route. Riders just want to go to the bus stop and get on the next 89. We all know those destination on the bus aren’t always correct. Some people just forgo the 89 entirely rather than deal with the confusion.
Relying on the route to Davis is particular difficult because it stops running shortly after 7pm. Stay late at work? Go to dinner and a movie in Davis? Then you better find some other route back.
For some brief history, not too long ago the 89 bus route went only between Clarendon Hill and Sullivan Square, leaving those living near Broadway with no direct access to the Red Line at all. The route today definitely provides better overall service than the old route, and I thank the MBTA for that change.
That said, I believe my proposed route would provide better overall service. It’s one route that loops Sullivan->Powderhouse->Davis->Clarendon->Powderhouse->Sullivan. No more confusion. No more stranding riders at Davis with no route back. One downside is that some riders along between Powderhouse and Sullivan would have to wait slightly longer on average for a bus to Sullivan (based on my back-of-the-envelope calculations about 2.5 minutes longer). I hope they think it would be worth the compromise.
What do you think? If you take the 89 would you prefer this route?
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Dude, what would happen for the people wanting to go from Powderhouse to Clarendon (anyone near Teele)? Your plan totally screws them.
Let the market dictate where the routes go and how many buses there are. In other words, if there are enough people (non-Tufts – as Tufts has their own shuttle) going from Powderhouse to David then the T should add extra buses ( and call it the 89.5 or 69 or whatever).
Green line is coming anyway.
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That’s a fair point about the Clarendon<->Powderhouse route, but . . .
First, it doesn’t “totally screw them” because they can still take the 89 back and forth. Totally screwing them would be leaving them without any route whatsoever. My plan would lengthen their route back by about 5 minutes but make the busses on their route more frequent. Some may prefer to get out of the cold and onto a bus quicker, even if it means a longer route back. The only ones “totally screwed” are today’s riders who are stranded at Davis after 7pm with no easy way back to Broadway.
Second, I don’t think there are as many people relying on a Clarendon<->Powderhouse route than there are people on Broadway trying to get to Davis. A change like this is about compromise, not perfection, and I think, on balance, my proposal would provide better overall service.
Third, yes, the T should and does measure ridership numbers along existing routes to determine if they need more busses. But they can’t measure ridership numbers for a route that doesn’t exist yet. The Green Line Extension had very high market demand for decades, but it took an outpouring of public pressure to make it a reality.
Fourth, the Green Line won’t solve the problem of people on Winter Hill trying to get back and forth to Davis efficiently. Plus, the Green Line isn’t for another 6 years at least. My proposal is a small, very inexpensive change — all the bus stops are already in place.
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I’ve been confused by the alternating schedule too. I think that a consistent route would be a whole lot easier to use. MBTA signage has improved over the past five years, but it’s still hard to decipher for new riders. If the current schedule stands, maybe it would make sense to designate one of the variations “89A” so people can quickly tell the difference.
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Would it work to have the 89 go to Clarendon and then to Davis, and then come back? It would take the Davis riders longer, of course, but it would be less confusing (and serve Clarendon hill even better). I agree that in practice now it’s confusing–though in practice I’m finding I’ll just take either and walk from Teele to Davis which is really not all that far for those without mobility issues (five minutes?)
The 89A designation is a great idea, esp. for those who don’t take the bus often.
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That’s a good suggestion, Melissa. As you said, it would server the ClarendonSullivan route better but the DavisSullivan route worse, and it would be slightly less confusing. I still prefer my suggestion because it is more fair to both routes, and the “looping” style bus route is fairly common and negligibly confusing, I think.
Also, that DavisClarendon route already has two busses (87 and 88) going back and forth and I would be concerned about over-congesting it with busses. I’m already concerned that my suggestion may put too many busses along that route.
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It looks like it’s only about .4 miles from Davis Square to Powderhouse Circle, certainly a walkable distance. Although for people that can’t easily walk that far, some sort of more dependable and less confusing diversion of the 89 route is probably needed.
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I’m not sure whether the route should be changed, but the different routings should definitely get different numbers (even if just 89C for Clarendon and 89D for Davis).
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Remember there are two key problems here:
1. confusion
2. riders stranded at Davis after 7pm
Different route numbers addresses the first problem but not the second. If they stay separate, then continuing to run the Davis<->Sullivan route past 7pm would address the second, but that would require more busses (= more $$$). My hope was that the suggested merged route would solve both problems without necessarily requiring more busses.
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Greg, your “solution” screws the people with a stop between powderhouse and teele. Most of the folks heading down to davis are tufts students and/or folks in shape. There aren’t that many fatties in or headed to davis, so those folks can continue to walk the 1/3 mile down college to davis. PLUS – I doubt the T wants too much more in the way of bus traffic in davis. The place is a traffic mess as is.
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Imux, the people between Powderhouse and Teele would still have there bus stops and direct route to Sullivan under my proposal, so how exactly would they be “screwed”? You’ve asserted that twice but never explained it.
Second, you’ve clearly never taken the 89 from Winter Hill or East Somerville to Davis in the morning, because there are virtually no Tufts college students on that route. Why would they be trying to get to Davis on a daily basis when the campus is northwest of Powderhouse? What you do see is a lot of older people just trying to get to work on time and many elderly as well. The people I talk to who actually take the 89 bus regularly really like my idea — not one has indicated to me they would feel “screwed” — they just want a simple route to Davis without worrying they’ll be stranded there if they come back too late.
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Greg rides the bus. Greg talks to the people on the bus. Greg knows who rides the bus.
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Katie, I have no doubt that Greg rides the bus on occasion and that Greg has asked “Hey, wouldn’t it be nice to have the bus shoot down to Davis???” to someone or another. A few may have said “Yeah, good idea.”
BUT….It’s not a perfect world – in Greg’s scenario there are winners (davis riders), but there are also losers (powderhouse to teele riders). People need to be sensitive to what others require – not just their own desires. That’s all I’m saying.
In these times of record high gas prices and a near recession (brought on by this do-nothing democratic congress!) we all need to help one another and not be selfish. I am sure Greg is a decent guy, but … again… a little reaching out to what others need means a lot. Help your neighbors is what I’ve been preaching for years now and I am hoping more and more of you new folks coming to Somerville pick up on it.
Greg, your proposal just reeks of win/lose… I don’t think there can be a win/win with bus routes though.
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Greg’s proposed route does not eliminate Teele to Powderhouse. It changes the route to a single circular route rather than a route that you have to guess which way it will go. The people who do want to go Powderhouse to Teele will still be able to get there on this route. They also gain the certainty that their bus will go one route instead of the current method which is an alternating route. So it actually offers them more opportunities to go on the route so it actually could be more helpful. Generally bus routes that connect to Subway stations directly are more popular and more used and useful than routes that do not.
I am curious as to how many years you beleive one must live in Somerville before they are not considered “new”. Are you always “new” if you were not born here? Are you qualified as no longer new after 10 years? 15 years? 20 years? How long does it take/
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P.S., I also think this bus route would be a good candidate to extend the route all the way to Assembly Square. Somerville people who want to get there by public transportation should be able to get there from across the city.
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I live in Magoun Square and have been “screwed” many times trying to get home after work because I either work late, or try to catch the last bus at 7:00 and it never comes. I normally walk the 15-20 minute walk home, but in the winter, the dark, and/or the rain, it’s not an option and I have to pay for a cab instead.
If I do get on a Clarendon Hill bus at Magoun Square in the morning and get off at Powderhouse to walk to Davis, at least 3/4 of the passengers do the same. To me, that shows a clear need for a route that regularly includes a Davis stop.
I think Greg’s solution is a good one.
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Karen/Katie/Greg, my issue with Greg’s solution is that it excludes the people with stops between powderhouse and teele. What about the elderly? WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN!?!?!?!
Also, the extra bus traffic into Davis will cause excessive smog/global warming and basically will help destroy our planet. You’re adding more traffic and wasting more gas if the T adopts Greg’s way. People should walk more – not less. We all need to do our part.
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Imux, you repeat the same thing over and over again even though it was pointed out to you several times that you were wrong. As both Katie and I said, it does not “exclude” people between Powderhouse and Teele — they are still very much on the route. This blog doesn’t take kindly to knowingly false statements.
As far as the pollution concern, several people I know resort to driving to Davis, when they would take the bus if it were more convenient. Some drive to Davis on a daily basis and park in those residential streets behind the T stop, annoying the residents there to boot. I believe my plan will reduce traffic and pollution by giving those who drive to Davis a more convenient bus option.
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Greg, if you divert the BUS from Powderhouse to Teele on the western leg then what happens to those folks in the middle (between powder – teele)? They have no bus. Look at your diagram.
And what false statements???!!! This blog has like 3 people who post to it anyway…. if I got kicked off then you would just be hearing crickets in here.
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Yes, Imux, I am several other people have looked at the diagram and, yes, it does show the bus heading from Teele to Powderhouse. So if you are heading from Sullivan to a location between Powderhouse and Teele, and if neither the Powderhouse nor Teele stops are convenient for you, then you take the bus around Clarendon Hill until it circles back eastbound. In exchange, you get more frequent busses.
This is the compromise I’m proposing. No one loses access to the bus and no one is excluded — that is plainly false. If the route is changed, there will be some who preferred the old route of course, but on balance I think it would provided better overall service. You are free to disagree of course, but you could consider deferring to those of us who actually take the 89 regularly.
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What does seems to be missing is that if you are located on Broadway between Teele and Powderhouse, and want to get *TO* Clarendon hill, there is no bus headed that way on that stretch of broadway ever. The only way to get from, say, your home near that stretch of Broadway to Foodmaster at Clarendon Hill, is to loop around *Sullivan* Square, all the way back to Powderhouse, past Davis, and then up the hill to Clarendon. This is a somewhat more of an inconvenience to those riders than to have to loop around Clarendon in order to get to Davis. Right now those riders just wait for a less-frequent bus that is coming in the right direction up Broadway from Sullivan directly to Clarendon.
I live pretty much right at Powderhouse, and haven’t had reason to take the 89 regularly since it only ran along Broadway and didn’t go to Davis at all! So I have no idea of the rider patterns at all, and I admit I am even less likely to take the 89 currently because of not knowing when it’s going to be going where.
One other possibility is to switch the 89 back to running along Brodway, but create better syncing of bus connections between the 89 in Powderhouse and the 94/96 going to Davis, and the 89 in Teele and the 87/88 going to Davis.
It does add a lot more unpredictability to those trips even if the routes are supposed to be synced up.
Whatjust having a better syncing and smart
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Thanks, Abbe, that’s a good point. You’re right there would no longer be any direct route from between Powderhouse and Teele TO Clarendon. I was operating on the assumption that few people rely on that route, or at least that the size of that ridership is dwarfed by the increased ridership that would result from my suggestion. If there is significant ridership from along that route, then I may have to reconsider.
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Greg, Abbe’s point was the exact point I was trying to make all along. Glad to finally see that you finally saw the light. If it was a win-win everyone would be for it, but your’s is win-lose. Though I applaud when people try to think out-of-the-box! Keep up the good work.
What the T should do is create another route (maybe the 666 route) that goes from Clarendon – Davis – PowderHouse – Sullivan and reverses (run it every 1/2 hour). Run those buses (maybe green buses – environmentally safe) all day long and all night or until 12:45 A.M. to take the drunk college kids home. That would be the ideal situation – add more buses and trains that are cleaner/greener. Let’s see what the T does though. I have a hunch – knowing the T – they’ll probably cutback service and give more perks to the union pensioners and loafers.
And I would have to say that I’ve ridden the 77/79/89/88/89 and 90 more than anyone on this blog. Trust me.
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Thanks, Imux. Just so you don’t get the wrong impression, I still believe my suggestion is better than the current situation. I think that the ridership TO Clarendon from between Teele and Powderhouse is very low. I’m looking into getting empirical data on this and hearing back from the MBTA planning department, so stay tuned. Thanks for the input.
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Imux, since I don’t know who you are and you don’t know who everyone who posts here is, I don’t think you can definitively say that you have ridden the bus more than anyone else. Perhaps if I knew who you were, I would accept that.
As for a bus taking home the drunk college kids at 12:45 am….I live on a drunk college kids walking route near Tufts. A lot of them don’t go home until 2 am.
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I have no idea what the ridership is for either segment – but especially with the Winter Hill Star market gone, I am curious whether there are many riders going from the Powderhouse-Teele neighborhoods to the Foodmaster for groceries and how that compares to commuters coming home late from work. If both sets of riders do rely on the bus for this, it’d be good to have a solution that addressed them both!
When I did ride buses from Davis Square home towards Tufts, it was after 7pm and coming home from a long day at *work* and trying to stay warm/cool/dry/not having to walk uphill. Though I rode the 94/96 bus most of the time, in my experience the 7pm to 12:45am segment is far more likely to encourage people to take transit either for commuting or for activities in Boston that probably aren’t all about drinking to excess. It’s hard to add more physical buses (rather than change routes around) in that time window given how empty they are, though, I bet. Even at 9pm on a workday I remember the bus being pretty deserted.
(Also, Imux, if they are people coming home who are somewhere in between between drunk and disorderly and completely sober, who have been eating out or whatever in Davis Square or in Boston, wouldn’t you rather they ride the bus than drive and run you over in the crosswalk while they weren’t paying attention?)
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